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Commercial use - Connection time out

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  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @origami wrote:

    >Where is it written that running TV from a "corporate network" for PRIVATE USE constitutes >commercial use??? This would eliminate probably over half the users.

    Amen, exactly right.  Teamviewer seems to think they have the right to redefine the English language so that "commercial usage" includes connecting to your Grandmother's computer via McDonald's WiFi, because McDonald's is a corporate entity.  


    @origami ; @Glassdub

    Hi !

    I'ts a bit subtle indeed ! TeamViewer doesn't redefine any language (Whether it is English or any other). It just applies its own rules and interpretation for a free usage of its own product. Eventhough we don't agree with TeamViewer rules, it has absolutely the right to have its own rules ("Dad's house, dad's rules !"). This has nothing to do with the law, nor language's rethoric or semantics.

    Quote : "> Where is it written that running TV from a "corporate network" for PRIVATE USE constitutes >commercial use??? " ...  Its textually and explicitly written  in the TeamViewer charter from its Knowledge Base. Every case is detailed... (But sorry that I can't provide you the link, nor a picture, as my reply is immediately censored when I do it... You can look for like I did it).

    And you are right (both origami & Glassdub), according to these rules after youy read them, probably over half "Personal users" are in fact "Commercial users" (But without their knowledge I suppose).

    But there are some (I'm one... I should say I was one) who use TeamViewer only with their private computer from their home private network, to only their friends and relatives private computers via their home private network (without making money or any business in any case, of course)... and yet, they are still detected as "Commercial users" !

    That is the main question... and the topic of this forum thread.

     

  • Glassdub
    Glassdub Posts: 79 ✭✭

    ...and why 2 pcs on the same work network with the same OS & software are NOT mutually blacklisted?

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Glassdub wrote:

    ...and why 2 pcs on the same work network with the same OS & software are NOT mutually blacklisted?


    @Glassdub

    ... if read all the posts of this thread, you'll see why !

    If you try to understand something fully coherent, you'll fall into madness.

    But TeamViewer implicitly admits that it's improving its algorithm (ahead of its Knowledge Base), in order to make a finer discrimination between true "Free users" and "Commercial users"... But it shouldn't be a good news for you, as if it works well, both of your 2 computers would be detected as "'Commercial use".

    Sorry again that I can't provide you the link nor any picture of that news, but... you know about censor... ). You can look for by yourself.

  • Glassdub
    Glassdub Posts: 79 ✭✭

    I don't really care, it works now, if it stops working for good I will be forced to stop using it altogether & these "legitimate" users could opt to use a hacked version if they are on a private home network.

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Glassdub wrote:

    I don't really care, it works now, if it stops working for good I will be forced to stop using it altogether & these "legitimate" users could opt to use a hacked version if they are on a private home network.


    You "don't really care, it works now... ... " !
    I'm afraid that's the problem !
    I was completely unaware that some people used TeamViewer for their personal convenience. Just to check and control remote their own devices (desktop computers, laptops, Smartphones... etc.)

    With a "Personal use license", I was only using it to help and fix my family and friends' computers and I never even think of using for something else ! (of course, I also understood that it could be used to make business in a company, but only with a paying license).
    You and some others helped me to have a larger understanding of the situation... I should say thank you for this.

    But the usage you, and others, are doing of a TeamViewer "Personal use" license, pushed its owners to protect their business, by deploying this "devilish" algorithm !

    I did believe for a long that TeamViewer really planned to kick away its "Free users". But now I understand better and I have 2 questions :
    1- Is the owner of a product wrong to protect his business ?
    2- Or, are they those who don't play fair by trying to circumvent the owner rules ?

    Of course, I understand how convenient it can be to control remote and check all one's own computing devices, from home to work and from work to home (or from anywhere towards anywhere).
    But it's not "Dad's rules in dad's house" when you do it from, or to, a professional corporate network.
    And those who did it have penalized those who only wanted to be helpful towards their friends and relatives, from and to private home networks.

    As long as those who didn't play fair were unaware of this, they had an excuse... But, now they know, I'm looking for a right word to define their behavior if they persist to do it and say : "I don't really care, it works now !"... and I just can find one... "selfishness" !

    About  Quote : "these "legitimate" users could opt to use a hacked version if they are on a private home network."
    I hope you can understand that if we want to help our relatives and friends, it's usually because they have a low IT skill level... And it can't be imaginable to push them at using a "hacked" solution.

    There was a very convenient free and legitimate  mean to help them... now it's a bit more "complicated" !

    Have a nice WE., with kind regards...

  • My opinion is, "You get what you pay for".  For example, I have free Pandora; I have to listen to some really annoying advertisements.  When they become too frequent, I will find something else.

    Companies use free users as a testing platform, advertising platform, and/or as a malware delivery system, etc.   The more reputable companies will be transparent in their dealings with their users. 

    It would appear that TV made/is making an awkward attempt at trying to move users to being paying.users.  It looks like they are trying advertising.  They are flailing.

    I would advise them to develop a pay for services model.  That is, the free version is very basic: remote control with advertising, but no file transfer, no audio, no meeting, etc.  This is the model of Pandora, CamScanner and many others.

    Respect (karma) is always important and it is a two way street.  I felt disrepected by TV, but now forgive them.  They provide me a service and if they want my help to develop a great product, I will help to the extent they help me.

    Let us, the free users and TeamViewer, learn from this experience and move forward.  I certainly have learned that there are many viable alternatives.

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @OldSurferDude wrote:

    ... ... ... ...

    ... I certainly have learned that there are many viable alternatives.


    Hi Old Dude !

    Actually, this is indeed in which way TeamViewer helped us. We learnt a lot from this hard experience... and we should feel grateful for this.
    I just wonder how could I express my gratefulness, as I can't afford to be a paying user (my retirement pension is quiet short, and the way I used TeamViewer was totally non profit)...
    So, I can only keep on not use anymore this software to help those I'm still helping.

  • @Andre75  et. al. The way you can help is simple.  When you see an anomoly or a bug, go on the forum and present the bug.  If you found a work-around, then describe it.  This helps all users.  In addition, the developers and maintainers, do indeed, read the forums and correct flaws as priorities permit.  Same is true for feature requests, even though, as a free user, you would probably not get access to that feature.

    This is how we "pay" for our free usage.

    On a personal note, I reloaded TV on my "offending" computer and have yet to see "commercial use detected".  

    I think I'll start a thread I'll call "TV for the hobbyist" where I describe my usage.

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @OldSurferDude wrote:

    @Andre75  et. al. The way you can help is simple.  When you see an anomoly or a bug, go on the forum and present the bug.  If you found a work-around, then describe it.  This helps all users.  In addition, the developers and maintainers, do indeed, read the forums and correct flaws as priorities permit.  Same is true for feature requests, even though, as a free user, you would probably not get access to that feature.

    This is how we "pay" for our free usage.

    On a personal note, I reloaded TV on my "offending" computer and have yet to see "commercial use detected".  

    I think I'll start a thread I'll call "TV for the hobbyist" where I describe my usage.


    @OldSurferDude

    Hi !

    Thanks for your advises. But to  remotely control some of my distant friends' computer, I do not use TV anymore (I have told yet that, by blocking me twice, and let me wait for 1 month before I got reset, TV pushed me to look for another mean... until I found it !
    (That's why I said that TV helped us a lot)...

    I loved TV, but I can't run the risk to let my friends and relatives in a big mess all in a sudden, without any warning... whether it would be due to my own blocking (for false "Commercial use detected") or the one of the person's computer I'm helping.

    I loved it because it had all the features we needed (it was simple enough in its usage, with no rights' restriction on the helped computer, full and fluid display screen, pretty fast with no latency, easy transfer of files... the chat  and voice communication was a plus, but I didn't often need for my use). And it worked with no bug... But, bad luck ! it's now too much scary as it's no longer reliable (when I got blocked, I had to let my daughter planted in a big mess, and she couldn't use her computer for a long... I don't want that can happen again).

    I had no new feature request (those it had were enough for my use).

    So I couldn't be the one to report some bugs that I would have to look for a work-around. (except the "big bug" we are speaking of on this forum topic... but there is no way, no "work-around"). Moreover I never had any other boring or serious bug as far as I remember (I was using it for about 8 years or more).

    Maybe I'll use it again, if someday TeamViewer officialy communicates and says there is no more free users blocked for "Commercial use suspected", and we will not have to be scared anymore ?

     

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @OldSurferDude

    ... I want to add to my former reply that I'm afraid my last "wish" is no way.

    On one hand, I understand that the real free users who have been trapped complain here (of course, I'm one ! :manhappy:). But there are too much "Free users" who don't play fair (and they always will, that's as old as our world)...

    And, on the other hand, I also understand that TeamViewer's managers need to protect their business... I'm total aware of the cost of the development and maintenance of such a product.... It's "mountains of money" !
    And any company needs to make money to keep on working at this maintenance and improvment of one's product(s)... They are not charity organizations. And, as you said, they have to "move forward" non stop (it's the rule of our kind of economy, and if you don't, you die !)

    But I can't see any 100 % reliable way to discriminate between those who really honestly use the product at "Personal use", in the respect of its owner's rules, and those who try to circumvent these rules (whether it is with or without their knowledge) ???

    The current way used by TeamViewer until now, is probably efficient for its managers, but it just can penalize those who play fair (I should say it's "a default way", which's unfair for the true "Personal users").

  • bazbsg
    bazbsg Posts: 99 ✭✭

    I'm getting notified that Teamviewer 14 is available now. Has anyone tried it yet and have any information on how it affects this issue with "commercial use suspected"?

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @bazbsg wrote:

    I'm getting notified that Teamviewer 14 is available now. Has anyone tried it yet and have any information on how it affects this issue with "commercial use suspected"?


    @bazbsg

    Hi !

    It's a good question.
    Sorry that I can't help you, but I think you better to create your own thread to post it. You'll have more chance to get replies.
    (the subject title might be something like : Version 14. Is everything OK with "Personal use" ? Then, add in your post  : .. and all other features ?)

    Regards.

    André

  • i am in the same situation but i had to change out my moms computer as it she down lodes ransom wear, i need to release that computer so i can add her new one can some one help me with that?

  • Glassdub
    Glassdub Posts: 79 ✭✭

    I have, the only noticeable difference is that it's listed as a "Preview" version now, I don't remember if the new nag & ability to use it on the marked PC at work came with this version as I auto update but it works, it wouldn't hurt to try there otherwise is no other functional difference..

  • Technut
    Technut Posts: 13
    How long does it take to unblock my TeamViewer?

    Due to the large number of requests we receive, answering the requests can take some time, although we are now aiming to solve all requests within seven days. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

    Well it took a lot longer than seven days (actually 5 weeks) for them to respond to my form declaring I'm a personal user. This is the 4th or 5th time I've patiently waited for a reset (and been unable to use TV properly while waiting).

    Previously we could use the trouble ticket system, which seemed much more efficient. This was my first time having to use the declaration form method. And it's also the first time their reply email said anything about my license remaining reset to free.

    "With your signed declaration, we took additional steps to make sure your TeamViewer ID remains reset."

    I guess we'll see.

    But hopefully the recent reports are true... that people aren't getting falsely flagged as often, or they are able to continue to use TV even if they are falsely flagged for commercial use?

    I hope they really have fixed this seriously annoying problem once and for all.

     

    Kse Dyna --
  • I made a mistake and clicked Commercial Use during installation , Now i am reinstalling it but i see error 'Your trail period has expired.'

     

    Can somebody help me resolving it

  • I think they will do it for securing the site from spammers.

  • Essjr
    Essjr Posts: 1
    Hi i am having the same problem. I am using for personal use.
    i need help!! i dont find any contact to help me with that
  • I use teamviewer since 2009 and one month ago i cannot used it because they tell me that I use it commercialy, That is not true, I am retired and I help my family or friends in a lot of things for exemple declaration for taxes because the people who have more 70 years are unable to do it by themselves. Or to make windows update....... Why I cannot utilised this fabulous logiciel now ?

    Thanks for you answer

    my mail is : [email removed]

  • pv7721
    pv7721 Posts: 139 ✭✭

    I'm under the impression that the faulty algorithm that kept suspecting / detecting commercial use has been fixed in the 13.2.26558 / October 4 version. I never heard back from them after submitting the ticket but I no longer experience the issue after this upgrade (and I'm also under the impression that the flow of the complaints from end-users being suspected of commercial use has slowed down).

    But otherwise it's a pity they don't consider licensing the software for a moderate sum for end-user and hobbysts. Every time I see their "offer"s I click but it's a ridiculous discount for the corporate annual licenses.

  • Hello, in a computer with windows 8 had Teamviewer 14 for commercial use as an evaluation, when the license expired the software does not let me change to the free version again. I have uninstall several times and reinstalling as a personal mode - not commercial, but there is always expired account message for activate a commercial license, what I want is to use Teamviewer for free on the same PC

    Please help me

    Thank you.

  • Rings
    Rings Posts: 11
    I just got an email from support telling me that they've reset my account to Private Use. Great! But then they said that, and I quote: "Please allow us to remind you that the private use of TeamViewer should be from a private home to a private home. In case you establish a connection from and/or to a commercial network, such as an office or a school, or from/to a server, the software will identify it and in that case you will need to acquire a license. The partners you connect with also need to be using either a private or a licensed version of the software." Is this some kind of joke? Connecting to my computer from school is the most important reason I use this program! Where can I possibly go other than my own home where a HOME connection is available? The whole point of this is so I can control my computer when I'm NOT home! Now I'm being told that the next time I do just that, I will be flagged as a commercial user again! How does this make me a commercial user? I am a PRIVATE user trying to access my own PRIVATE computer. Can you not figure out that if a user only has 2 computers that they access, MAYBE they aren't a commercial user? Why does it matter where I connect from? Where CAN I connect from if not a work/school connection? At my own home? I'd already have access to both my computers in that case, so that's clearly not it.
  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Rings wrote:
    I just got an email from support telling me that they've reset my account to Private Use. Great! But then they said that, and I quote:

     "Please allow us to remind you that the private use of TeamViewer should be from a private home to a private home. In case you establish a connection from and/or to a commercial network, such as an office or a school, or from/to a server, the software will identify it and in that case you will need to acquire a license. The partners you connect with also need to be using either a private or a licensed version of the software."
    Is this some kind of joke? Connecting to my computer from school is the most important reason I use this program! Where can I possibly go other than my own home where a HOME connection is available? The whole point of this is so I can control my computer when I'm NOT home! Now I'm being told that the next time I do just that, I will be flagged as a commercial user again! How does this make me a commercial user? I am a PRIVATE user trying to access my own PRIVATE computer. Can you not figure out that if a user only has 2 computers that they access, MAYBE they aren't a commercial user? Why does it matter where I connect from? Where CAN I connect from if not a work/school connection? At my own home? I'd already have access to both my computers in that case, so that's clearly not it.


    @Rings

    Hi,

    I'm afraid it's not a joke. All what's reminded to you is explicitly mentioned in TeamViewer's charter. But just a few people read it.
    Your astonishment is understandable, because the use you describe does not seem to you  being a commercial use. But these are the rules of the software's owner and, as you know : "Dad's house, dad's rules". Even though you are a non-profit user, your case is defined in TeamViewer's charter as "Professional use"...

    Lot of "Personal users"  had a hard time because of those who did not play fair, even in good faith as you seem to be... Those who really used TeamViewer at "Personal use", exactly according to the owner's rules, were blocked for a long (several months), unless they bought a license... Now, it seems to be OK since a few weeks. The algorithm seems to discriminate more precisely between "Free use" and "Professional use"... hope that will last long.

  • Rings
    Rings Posts: 11
    Okay, so when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...? I don't go to my friends' houses as they all come to mine since I'm the one with a PC. The only other place I'd be using this is on a public connection. I sometimes need to grab an essay from my computer that I forgot to upload to my Dropbox in order to print it at school to hand it in before the deadline. Isn't it obvious that since I've only got 2 computers I can't possibly be a commercial user? If I was connecting to dozens of computers, I'd completely understand, but that's not the case. Teamviewer is therefore completely useless and other new services which are free seem much better since they're actually usable.
  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Rings

    Hi Rings, it's me again.

    Actually, I want to add that the main meaning of "Personal use" is to help friends and relatives, non-profit, from a home private network, to another home private network....

    Help friends and relatives neither means to remote one's own computer(s), (or any other own computing device), from a public or professional environment to a private place, nor from a private place to a public or professional environment (and still less if it's to make money, of course).... That's what TeamViewer's charter means.

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Rings wrote:
    Okay, so when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...? I don't go to my friends' houses as they all come to mine since I'm the one with a PC. The only other place I'd be using this is on a public connection. I sometimes need to grab an essay from my computer that I forgot to upload to my Dropbox in order to print it at school to hand it in before the deadline. Isn't it obvious that since I've only got 2 computers I can't possibly be a commercial user? If I was connecting to dozens of computers, I'd completely understand, but that's not the case. Teamviewer is therefore completely useless and other new services which are free seem much better since they're actually usable.

    @Rings

    I understand your frustration, but these are TeamViewer's owner rules... I don't say that I agree with. But I have to agree with one universal rule. I told it yet : "Dad's house, dad's rule's"... And I thought that everybody could understand that rule.

    Eventhough we find it unfair, or incoherent, when "dad" says it's my rule in my house, I wouldn't want to discuss... If I don't like, I can go away... as long as "dad" doesn't say : "you are my prisoner in my house".

    You say : "when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...?" I just can tell you that I use TeamViewer from my home private network, to help some friends, my daughter, my sister... etc. who use it from ther home private network.

    Actually, I discovered on this forum that many people used it to check what was happening on their own computing devices, at their home from their work. I never imagined to do it. I thought it was only useful to help the others, not oneselves.

  • Glassdub
    Glassdub Posts: 79 ✭✭

    This is stupid as I have stated many times: Only ONE PC at my work is marked & one PC on THE SAME network as well as my notebook on public WiFi have NEVER been marked as public usage, Is this just dumb luck??? As mentioned this renders TV virtually useless as WHO uses it at home on there own LAN??? that's pointless.

  • Rings
    Rings Posts: 11

    I don't quite understand how you can consider helping others to be MORE personal than helping ONESELF? Instead you're making it sound like helping oneself is absolutely not personal use and instead commercial use. You're helping yourself for crying out loud. It's you. Personal by definition. Getting a file from my own desktop using my laptop is personal use, no matter where I am.

  • Andre75
    Andre75 Posts: 73 ✭✭

    @Glassdub wrote:

    This is stupid as I have stated many times: Only ONE PC at my work is marked & one PC on THE SAME network as well as my notebook on public WiFi have NEVER been marked as public usage, Is this just dumb luck??? As mentioned this renders TV virtually useless as WHO uses it at home on there own LAN??? that's pointless.


    @Glassdub

    Hi Glassdub, well come back !

    (I hope that what you mention as "stupid" is not my replies to @Rings ... But if it was, never mind, I wont hate you for a so few thing.).

    Yes, it was probably "just dumb luck", as same as some of those who really used at strict  "Personal use" rules were blocked...  it was unluck !

    You say : "... WHO uses it at home on their own LAN ???" ... Me, my daugter, 2 of my sisters, my niece, my nephews, about 5 or 6 of my friends...  and I know a lot of others who do the same (but not with my help)... Is it pointless ? All these persons use it because they don't have a very good I.T. skill, and they sometimes need to be helped. Is it pointless ? For us, TV is very useful... and we use it exactly according to TV's charter. (that you maybe didn't read yet ?)

    I must say that I quite don't understand that someones cannot understand this clear and explicit rule (once again I don't say that I agree with, but they are the owner's rules)... and they "don't understand"  just because it doesn't fit with the usage they would want for their own needs ! If I wanted to control remote my own home computing devices, from a public or professional environment (or in reverse way), I would know that's not allowed, free of charge, by TeamViewer... and I will look for another mean, as I couldn't afford a paying license. to do it. Or, if I tried to circumvent the owner's rules, I wouldn't complain to be blocked.

    That's my understanding of "obvious".

  • Glassdub
    Glassdub Posts: 79 ✭✭

    What Rings said its "commercial use" If PROFIT is made and PERSONAL if not & again, where is this "must use on your personal LAN" written in law??? Seems to be just subjectively implied.

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