Commercial use - Connection time out
Comments
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@Rings wrote:
I just got an email from support telling me that they've reset my account to Private Use. Great! But then they said that, and I quote:"Please allow us to remind you that the private use of TeamViewer should be from a private home to a private home. In case you establish a connection from and/or to a commercial network, such as an office or a school, or from/to a server, the software will identify it and in that case you will need to acquire a license. The partners you connect with also need to be using either a private or a licensed version of the software."
Is this some kind of joke? Connecting to my computer from school is the most important reason I use this program! Where can I possibly go other than my own home where a HOME connection is available? The whole point of this is so I can control my computer when I'm NOT home! Now I'm being told that the next time I do just that, I will be flagged as a commercial user again! How does this make me a commercial user? I am a PRIVATE user trying to access my own PRIVATE computer. Can you not figure out that if a user only has 2 computers that they access, MAYBE they aren't a commercial user? Why does it matter where I connect from? Where CAN I connect from if not a work/school connection? At my own home? I'd already have access to both my computers in that case, so that's clearly not it.Hi,
I'm afraid it's not a joke. All what's reminded to you is explicitly mentioned in TeamViewer's charter. But just a few people read it.
Your astonishment is understandable, because the use you describe does not seem to you being a commercial use. But these are the rules of the software's owner and, as you know : "Dad's house, dad's rules". Even though you are a non-profit user, your case is defined in TeamViewer's charter as "Professional use"...Lot of "Personal users" had a hard time because of those who did not play fair, even in good faith as you seem to be... Those who really used TeamViewer at "Personal use", exactly according to the owner's rules, were blocked for a long (several months), unless they bought a license... Now, it seems to be OK since a few weeks. The algorithm seems to discriminate more precisely between "Free use" and "Professional use"... hope that will last long.
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Okay, so when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...? I don't go to my friends' houses as they all come to mine since I'm the one with a PC. The only other place I'd be using this is on a public connection. I sometimes need to grab an essay from my computer that I forgot to upload to my Dropbox in order to print it at school to hand it in before the deadline. Isn't it obvious that since I've only got 2 computers I can't possibly be a commercial user? If I was connecting to dozens of computers, I'd completely understand, but that's not the case. Teamviewer is therefore completely useless and other new services which are free seem much better since they're actually usable.1
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Hi Rings, it's me again.
Actually, I want to add that the main meaning of "Personal use" is to help friends and relatives, non-profit, from a home private network, to another home private network....
Help friends and relatives neither means to remote one's own computer(s), (or any other own computing device), from a public or professional environment to a private place, nor from a private place to a public or professional environment (and still less if it's to make money, of course).... That's what TeamViewer's charter means.
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@Rings wrote:
Okay, so when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...? I don't go to my friends' houses as they all come to mine since I'm the one with a PC. The only other place I'd be using this is on a public connection. I sometimes need to grab an essay from my computer that I forgot to upload to my Dropbox in order to print it at school to hand it in before the deadline. Isn't it obvious that since I've only got 2 computers I can't possibly be a commercial user? If I was connecting to dozens of computers, I'd completely understand, but that's not the case. Teamviewer is therefore completely useless and other new services which are free seem much better since they're actually usable.I understand your frustration, but these are TeamViewer's owner rules... I don't say that I agree with. But I have to agree with one universal rule. I told it yet : "Dad's house, dad's rule's"... And I thought that everybody could understand that rule.
Eventhough we find it unfair, or incoherent, when "dad" says it's my rule in my house, I wouldn't want to discuss... If I don't like, I can go away... as long as "dad" doesn't say : "you are my prisoner in my house".
You say : "when you're limited to home connections, where can you use Teamviewer? Your own home.... where else...?" I just can tell you that I use TeamViewer from my home private network, to help some friends, my daughter, my sister... etc. who use it from ther home private network.
Actually, I discovered on this forum that many people used it to check what was happening on their own computing devices, at their home from their work. I never imagined to do it. I thought it was only useful to help the others, not oneselves.
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This is stupid as I have stated many times: Only ONE PC at my work is marked & one PC on THE SAME network as well as my notebook on public WiFi have NEVER been marked as public usage, Is this just dumb luck??? As mentioned this renders TV virtually useless as WHO uses it at home on there own LAN??? that's pointless.
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I don't quite understand how you can consider helping others to be MORE personal than helping ONESELF? Instead you're making it sound like helping oneself is absolutely not personal use and instead commercial use. You're helping yourself for crying out loud. It's you. Personal by definition. Getting a file from my own desktop using my laptop is personal use, no matter where I am.
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@Glassdub wrote:This is stupid as I have stated many times: Only ONE PC at my work is marked & one PC on THE SAME network as well as my notebook on public WiFi have NEVER been marked as public usage, Is this just dumb luck??? As mentioned this renders TV virtually useless as WHO uses it at home on there own LAN??? that's pointless.
Hi Glassdub, well come back !
(I hope that what you mention as "stupid" is not my replies to @Rings ... But if it was, never mind, I wont hate you for a so few thing.).
Yes, it was probably "just dumb luck", as same as some of those who really used at strict "Personal use" rules were blocked... it was unluck !
You say : "... WHO uses it at home on their own LAN ???" ... Me, my daugter, 2 of my sisters, my niece, my nephews, about 5 or 6 of my friends... and I know a lot of others who do the same (but not with my help)... Is it pointless ? All these persons use it because they don't have a very good I.T. skill, and they sometimes need to be helped. Is it pointless ? For us, TV is very useful... and we use it exactly according to TV's charter. (that you maybe didn't read yet ?)
I must say that I quite don't understand that someones cannot understand this clear and explicit rule (once again I don't say that I agree with, but they are the owner's rules)... and they "don't understand" just because it doesn't fit with the usage they would want for their own needs ! If I wanted to control remote my own home computing devices, from a public or professional environment (or in reverse way), I would know that's not allowed, free of charge, by TeamViewer... and I will look for another mean, as I couldn't afford a paying license. to do it. Or, if I tried to circumvent the owner's rules, I wouldn't complain to be blocked.
That's my understanding of "obvious".
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What Rings said its "commercial use" If PROFIT is made and PERSONAL if not & again, where is this "must use on your personal LAN" written in law??? Seems to be just subjectively implied.
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@Rings wrote:I don't quite understand how you can consider helping others to be MORE personal than helping ONESELF? Instead you're making it sound like helping oneself is absolutely not personal use and instead commercial use. You're helping yourself for crying out loud. It's you. Personal by definition. Getting a file from my own desktop using my laptop is personal use, no matter where I am.
I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I don't mean that to help others is MORE than helping oneself... once again I just can repete we are allowed to "help ourselves", if we don't do it from, or to, a corporate network. And, once again, I don't say that I agree with that rule but ...etc. (you know "dad" already).
But, so that being more explicit, the notion of "helping others" means those who have an I.T. or computing usage problem that they can't solve by themselves, because of lacking of knowledge... To "help" oneself, in the way you and others do it, means to have a convenient way to control remote your own devices (and it's generally from a professional environment to your home. Otherwise, from local private network to local private network, it shouldn't be considered as "Professional use").
So, "helping others" implies a notion of altruism... While "helping yourself" could be personal convenience, almost "selfishness".
If you want to go any further, I would suggest you to complain to "dad" and tell "him" that his rules are unfair. Maybe will "he" listen to you ?
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I really also doubt that it is written in the TOS that altruism gives one a free pass, subjective implication again.
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@Glassdub wrote:What Rings said its "commercial use" If PROFIT is made and PERSONAL if not & again, where is this "must use on your personal LAN" written in law??? Seems to be just subjectively implied.
"where is this "must use on your personal LAN" written in law???
Great !... You are just pointing out the real problem... It's a big misunderstanding. The TeamViewer's charter has nothing to do with "law"... They are just "TeamViewer rules"... The product is basically paying. TeamViewer isn't a charity organization and needs to make money (I think, I hope, that you have the least of idea of the cost to develop and maintain such a product, as same as the servers center). This is paid by the paying users, and fully in accordance with commercial laws.
Luckily, at the same time, its managers allow its free use, but in certain conditions. That's "dad's rules in dad's house"... I hope you are aware that millions of "Personal users" keeping connected a whole day without paying has a cost for any computing company. (If you really can't imagine that cost, at least you can start to get informed about... maybe you'll get dizzy ? Get ready to type lot of numbers). To be "kind" (and also businesman of course) doesn't mean to accept to lose money.
So, instead of thinking this probleme "upside down", we better to see its correct side... and being happy that we still can use this product free of charge, but just in TeamViewer rules.
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@Glassdub wrote:I really also doubt that it is written in the TOS that altruism gives one a free pass, subjective implication again.
Please do not take my sentences out of context for your convenience only (since you seem to be a paragon of objectivity). My main meaning was, and it's still, "not from or to a professional corporate network"... this is what "gives one a free pass" !
About "helping others" (altruism) and the "subjective implication", I let you read the KB of TeamViewer, I just give you a short part, as the below image,... of TeamViewer "subjectivity".(it's not mine)
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Well, you don’t understand how networks work. What do you mean personal lan? There is no such thing. As it’s a remote tool it must works between various lans. Based on your example, if i need to access a file on my laptop from my pc its at least two lans (one where my laptop is and the ither where my pc is nany miles and countries away).
You cannot determine the usage by networks (especially if one or both machines connects to different vpns)0 -
Okay, using teamviewer with friends and family without any financial compensation is considered as personal use. My desktop is actually my father's. I want to remote into it to get a file that I need instead of asking my father to get it for me. I'm not getting financially compensated for this. So my use case definitely qualifies as personal use.
Even if it was my own PC, I'm still not getting financially compensated in the slightest. So I don't see the problem.
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@Rings wrote:Okay, using teamviewer with friends and family without any financial compensation is considered as personal use. My desktop is actually my father's. I want to remote into it to get a file that I need instead of asking my father to get it for me. I'm not getting financially compensated for this. So my use case definitely qualifies as personal use.
Even if it was my own PC, I'm still not getting financially compensated in the slightest. So I don't see the problem.
If I guessed that you'll read only what is in bold characters, I would have erased it.
Can you read what does TeamViewer mean by "help" ... family and friends ? So, OK, the case you mention (your dad's laptop) is "Personal use" indeed... unless you control remote it from a professional corporate network.
Eventhough I wouldn't understand how network works, that wouldn't change TeamViewer rules (not mine)... let you see what these rules are about using it via other kind of networks but home private one
It's another short part of TeamViewer KB.
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That’s regular **bleep**. Tw cannot determine a networ as private or non private. There is no auch a thing.
It can be devided by usage (they also can’t do this) but no way they can identify a network in such a way. Let me say an example. I’ve gotmy home network used by me, payed by me. As per tw it’s a private network. Still a private network if i connect to my companys o365 portal and answers email and get paid for it. The network is the same, but the usage become business. Or i connect to my private vpn and as per tw it become business even its still private.
Long story short tw doesn’t have any serious algorythm behind the business use notifications. Never had and never will have.0 -
@waces wrote:
That’s regular **bleep**. Tw cannot determine a networ as private or non private. There is no auch a thing.
It can be devided by usage (they also can’t do this) but no way they can identify a network in such a way. Let me say an example. I’ve gotmy home network used by me, payed by me. As per tw it’s a private network. Still a private network if i connect to my companys o365 portal and answers email and get paid for it. The network is the same, but the usage become business. Or i connect to my private vpn and as per tw it become business even its still private.
Long story short tw doesn’t have any serious algorythm behind the business use notifications. Never had and never will have.Hi,
I do believe what you say "they don't have any serious algorithm" to discriminae between "Professional" and "Private"... that's why so many "Personal users" (free users) were falgged, then blocked !... At least, TeamViewer tried it. It seems that now they gave up, because it was a big mess... So, that's not my topic... I just get exhausted to explain to @Rings and @Glassdub that TeamViewer asks its free users to play fair... TV has a charter with rules ("fair", "coherent" or not is another question), and they both weren't following that rules. I believe that they did it in good faith... If you try to circumvent the rules of TV owners, you cannot complain to be blocked, that's all. The problem was that they didn't know these owner's rules (even, Glassdub made confusion with law), but when I told them, they thought I was a bit stupid and stubborn. I just told them (then showed them in pictures) that I didn't invent these rules (anyone can read them on TV's Knowledge Base). It never means that I agree with... But I agree to respect the owner's rules (not only TV's owner, but any owner when he expects that his rules are respected in his house).
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My TeamViewer software kept displaying that my Trial period had expired. I used the Personal Verification form to request that my ID set to be private. I didnt get any response for it, so I used the form a second time to request that my ID be set to private. I received 2 emails saying that my ID had been set to Private. But on opening TeamViewer, it still shows that my Trial Expired and because of this I am unable to connect using TeamViewer. I received both these mails on Nov 5. 2018. Kindly look into this and help me use TeamViewer with a Private ID.
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There are no valud rules to break. In 95% of the cases the users were only free users marked as policy violators without any proof (just like myself). No rules were broken.
The only problem with this that tw cannot proove anything. And the rulset in tw faq is simply a few words from someone who have zero technical knowledge. Those are words in random order with no meaning. Because of it those cannot be a foundation of any policies.
The affected users never tried to trick any policy or break anything, simply because those policies never existed. Tw cannot identify any of the requirements (like: machine cannot be used in home office. That’s simply idiotic sentence. A machine and its user can swap the usage between within a sec just based on browsing behaviors and tw has nothing to do with it. Or tw can be used for privat purposes meanwhil in a paralell process the user works for money. If its not related with tw access then tw has nothing to do with it)
Tw just wanted to get rid of the free users (successful part as lots of the ex-tw users moved to different, even betterproducts€ and move them to paid subscription (less successful part)
Noone against the rules and noone wants to break the on purpose. But for this need solud, well defined and valud ruleset. And if you punish someone you need to show the proof and the evindence of rule breaking behavior. Simply as that.2 -
"Home Office" usage implies PROFIT (or in the case of non profit "groups" the exchange of payment for services rendered), I am NOT making profit (getting paid) connecting to my home PC for business related to my job or private commerce, by the words of this TOS network type is irrelevant ("professional corporate network," or any reference to network type isn't listed in the TOS) this is PERSONAL USAGE with zero monetary gain within the stated rules for personal use.
So please don't state that I'm breaking the rules unless you have something factual to back it up.1 -
@Glassdub wrote:"Home Office" usage implies PROFIT (or in the case of non profit "groups" the exchange of payment for services rendered), I am NOT making profit (getting paid) connecting to my home PC for business related to my job or private commerce, by the words of this TOS network type is irrelevant ("professional corporate network," or any reference to network type isn't listed in the TOS) this is PERSONAL USAGE with zero monetary gain within the stated rules for personal use.
So please don't state that I'm breaking the rules unless you have something factual to back it up.You say : "... this TOS network type is irrelevant ("professional corporate network," or any reference to network type isn't listed in the TOS"
They are !... but I will no longer waste my time to insert my screen shots of TeamViewer KB, that you obviously cannot read.
Just tell you "my story" (hope you'll read it attentively until the end) :
I am a drill rental company.
"Tartempion" is an amateur handyman. He needed a drill to work on wooden boards. I offered to lend him one of mine free of charge.
My drill can work with wood, metal, stone, concrete...
I just asked him not to use it for anything other than wood. I told him that if he wanted to drill metal or concrete, he would have to pay for it.
During his carpentry work, I saw that he had made holes in concrete walls with my drill.
I asked him to pay me. He protested by saying that I couldn't prove that he was making holes in the concrete with my drill.
(He was right, I didn't really see him drilling the walls, but I saw the holes, and I also saw that my drill and my concrete drills were much more used than if he had only drilled wood).
... He protested by denying that he was drilling concrete, or by saying that my rule was stupid and that I could not prove that he was not respecting it.
So I took my drill back from "Tartempion"!..... And I did the same for everyone I lent my other drills for free !..... Until they pay for all the uses they wanted to do with... or until they respect my free use rule again.Those to whom I lend my drills neither care about the price I pay for when I buy them, nor the cost of their maintenance, nor to repair them when they are broken.
They just can feel frustration, and even "injustice", when I take back my belongings because they don't respect my rules of use.I'm probably stupid and stubborn to ask people to respect my own rules when using for free what belongs to me ?????.....
(even if these rules seem incoherentt, unfair, irrelevant, random, or stupid, to those I ask to respect them... these are my owner's rules ! )... Or, maybe they are the ones to whom I lend my drill for free, whom their frustration makes them see only their own convenience... but they never can see mine ???
* Once again, I don't say that I agree with TeamViewer free use's rules... I just mean that one cannot circumvent, or complain for the rules of any owner when he asks to repect those at free use... It just means loyal , honest... like we would like it is for oneselves... That's all !
And these owner's rules (whether they are incoherent, unfair, irrelevant, random, or stupid... ) are really written down on his "TOS", "FAQ", "KB", "Charter"... Just look for !
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I decided to chime in, again, on the algorithm for determining personal use. It will never achieve the goal of differentiating between "alturistic" and "profit motive". I my case, I have received benefit and I will give 10% of the benefit I received. here is "10% of gratitude" and a "10% kiss on the cheek", and where do I send 10% of the meal that was made for me?
My suggestion is a pay-for-feature business model. Very basic (no chat, no audio, no file transfer, no conferencing, etc.) is free or a nominal charge of €3/mo. Put in advertising and have it removed for €5/mo.
OK, thanks for letting me vent, again.
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What a irrelevant convoluted & unrelated analogy, if you can't state how I broke the rules &/or used TV for commercial gain just go off on some unrelated tangent I guess, it dosn't change the nature of my TV usage as purely personal.
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I don't think anyone, even those at TV, knows what the algorithm calls commercial or non-commercial. I think I was whacked just because I have my own domain name. Or I have more than x computers.
The point being is that we broke the rules of The Algorithm. It's a mathmatical formula, created by an engineer and a CEO. What would you expect from them? Certainly not compassion.
This is the hand we're dealt. Deal with it and move on.
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I was speaking of the stated rules & those who claimed I overstepped them when I clearly haven't as has been insinuated.
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You're right, I did not make myself clear. The stated rules and the algorithm are not in accordance. Not even close.
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@OldSurferDude wrote:I don't think anyone, even those at TV, knows what the algorithm calls commercial or non-commercial. I think I was whacked just because I have my own domain name. Or I have more than x computers.
The point being is that we broke the rules of The Algorithm. It's a mindless mathmatical formula, created by an engineer at the direction of a bean counter.and a greedy CEO. What would you expect from them? Certainly not compassion.
This is the hand we're dealt. Deal with it and move on.
Of course, this algorithm can't really discriminate between what TeamViewer calls "Personal use" and "Professional use"... @waces is right and explains it clearly.
It only randomly targeted free users, and it blocked, randomly some of them for no real reason ! Sometimes "it" was right, sometimes "it" was wrong! (I said a long time ago that it was just a lottery).
It seems to have been introduced to push those who could feel "guilty" to pay for a license (those who felt suiting to the criteria for "Professional use", under the rules listed in TV's KB)...
The others, those who resisted either abandoned TeamViewer for another mean, or waited for the TV managers stop playing that lottery.
It seems to me that we are wasting our time trying to justify that we were not really "guilty", since no one was guilty !....
@Glassdub : Who is responsible for losing the lottery ? Especially when you don't know that you are playing it ?... (Is this analogy better suiting to your understanding of the "problem" ?)
But that wasn't the question ! Sorry that you can't understand what I'm trying to tell you about "Dad's rules in dad's house"... and persist to justify yourself for nothing for you would be "guilty" or not... And still insist to complain and "explain" that "Dad's rules" are unfair, or stupid (actually, just random)... as everybody knows and understood that already.(* N.B. just saying that an analogy is irrelevant doesn't demonstrate its irrelevance. It more demonstrates that this analogy wasn't read or understood)
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@OldSurferDude wrote:I decided to chime in, again, on the algorithm for determining personal use. It will never achieve the goal of differentiating between "alturistic" and "profit motive". I my case, I have received benefit and I will give 10% of the benefit I received. here is "10% of gratitude" and a "10% kiss on the cheek", and where do I send 10% of the meal that was made for me?
My suggestion is a pay-for-feature business model. Very basic (no chat, no audio, no file transfer, no conferencing, etc.) is free or a nominal charge of €3/mo. Put in advertising and have it removed for €5/mo.
"I decided to chime in, again, on the algorithm for determining personal use. It will never achieve the goal of differentiating between "alturistic" and "profit motive". ... I'm afraid you're wasting yr time. It's actually impossible, and I'm sure that you know this.
"My suggestion is a pay-for-feature business model. Very basic (no chat, no audio, no file transfer, no conferencing, etc.) is free or a nominal charge of €3/mo. Put in advertising and have it removed for €5/mo." ...
And I'm still afraid you're opening the "Pandora's box"... Moreover some will have some other features request or suggestions. (as for my personal case, it has a few interest if I'can't transfer files. But I don't need a chat -typing on the other "NotePad" is enough for me if necessary- and I don't need voice call, nor keeping on a connected session for more than 15 mn to 120 mn... And I don't need to remote my own devices, as I only use it to help others... etc.)
But it's only my personal case, and if you ask to @Glassdub, he will tell you that he absolutely needs to remote his own other devices, from his work place, keeping on connection 24 hours/7 days... and to transfer files etc.).... And if you ask to another one, she/he will tell you that...0 -
I think its **bleep** simple, if money is exchanging hands in the usage of TV, they want a slice of it, I read & got the analogy, it doesn't correspond to my situation, so it's irrelevant as are the needs of the user, its really no ones business for what & how long TV is used (outside of business usage), its not like TV is paying for a users network.
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@Glassdub wrote:I think its **bleep** simple, if money is exchanging hands in the usage of TV, they want a slice of it, I read & got the analogy, it doesn't correspond to my situation, so it's irrelevant as are the needs of the user, its really no ones business for what & how long TV is used (outside of business usage), its not like TV is paying for a users network.
Are you really still sticking on only "money" or "no money" use'? And really trying to argue, so that to find out something coherent in "Dad's rules" ? I can't believe !!!
You say "it doesn't correspond to my situation..." ??? But you said 2 weeks ago : " I never got reset, it has been blocked on the same work pc for a good 2 months," ??? Maybe I don't understand well, but it seems you say that you are using TV from yr work (means "professional environment" at TV rules sense, even though it's not your sense' )
OK, I've posted yet the "dad's rules" about using TV in professional environment (at TV rules sense, written in TV's KB... even though it's neither your , nor my sense', ), so, I'll not post it again ... In its rules, TV asks you "not to use it from or to professional environment" !... I ask "those whom I lend my drill free of charge "not to use it for "drilling concrete" (unless they pay me for) !... but some did it without my permission and without paying for.... OK ??? Can you start to see the analogy ??? . If you still can't, I can rent a drill to you, with a large diameter concrete drill, that you could use at hammering your skull !
Just kidding !.. I've never been a drill rental company.
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