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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@Johnhoward28 

No, not really expecting nay level of support per se. I'm looking for some way of addressing a glaring oversight on their end of things where they have only two types of users, "Home" and "Commercial" and from what I was told during my phone conversation with TV it's IP Based.

Although I totally understand their need to ensure that people who are using this softwar3e for commercial gain are in fact paying the licensing fee(s), and I fully support that. The medhodology they are currently using is, well somewhat difficult to comprehend. A simple IP Lookup using the ARIN Database will give you results in none to uncertain terms as to who actually owns a block of IP Addresses. check the "OrgName" and exempt those from the "Commercial" list of IP's they are blocking. 

As I have said, I totally agree with TV imposing the restrictions and doing what they can to get those who are using TV for Commercial Gain to pay the licensing fee(s). I don't however agree with their assumption that Universities and other Educational Establishments should be considered as "Commercial" when they are doing those IP Based checks....

 

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Posted by
Henagon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

John,

you are clearly missing the point here. Yes its great to provide a free service and this is not a given,. What I and most others have an issue with is to go and interupt a granted fee service and as part of a upsell campaign they use the worst way posible to determine who is a comercial user and who is not. Using an unreliabel WHOIS record to see who is comercial user and who is not is just stupid. In my case i help my wife with her personal laptop from time to time. Even so the Ip she uses belongs to a corp network does that mean its comercial use ? No it does not so i will go out and bet that the IP schema they are using is producing a true / false not anywhere near 50%. And if you pay for service and support with another product and dont get a response in 3 days i would reconsider the vendor. Now if you buy software and no support , you might not get a responed fast if at all. There is software and there is a service and TeamViwer is a Service that uses a software to deliver that service. No Response no Service = no Revenue.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks


@ScratchMang wrote:

Currently TeamViewer determines commercial vs Non-Commercial usage based solely upon the source and or destination IP Address. I suspect it's a simple check to see who the IP of the Source and Destination is assigned to and if it's not assigned to a residential service (Like Shaw, Telus, Verision or AT&T) it simply considers it as a commercial IP and shoots out the five minute warning or simply drops the connection.

And fair enough. However, Universities and other educational establishments fall afoul of this as they also seems ot be considered "Commercial" for whatever reason. Perhaps someone needs to look at and or update the Algorithm to take into consideration that Students attending a University (Living on Campus) are NOT commercial. 

 


Hmmm...I have to say that's not it, because my accounts are only between 6 or 7 computers, all at my home, in differnet places (garage, workshop, kitchen, ham radio room, etc), through a residential internet provider (Spectrum). Been filling out the form, no good. It's only two of the computers here that are black listed, the others are fine. Make no sense, and they won't correct it, no matter how many times I've sent in the form. I'm experimenting with other software, now. A business I have friends at in town have a commercial account and are having support issues, so it doesn't seem to be just the free hobbiest users who are having problems..

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@ilikethat44 

I can see why they did it, it's just a little to heavy handed IMHO. 

I've worked in the IT Field for over 30 years and I suspect that TV is probably using an PBL (Policy Block List) to determine who or what is or is not 'Commercial' and what is or is not "Residential". It's not the best methodology, but it owuld be the simplest way to implement they type of restriction they are imposing.

But that's just a guess....

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@WB4IUY 

Possibly, check your terms of service (Any my previous post) I'm just speculating here as to how they are differentiating between resedential and commercial....

73's de VE6OMC

Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@ScratchMang

You clearly have a better understanding of technology than me.  Maybe you should apply to TV for a job and help them fix this issue since you seem to know what they should do.

As far ar Universities go, they are FOR-Profit institutions.  They make billions off of charging outrageous fees to young impressionable students for degrees that are not worth the paper they are written on.  If I had my way, I would make a law that universities could only offer internal financing, so that they would have the incentive to encourage students to choose degrees that could actually make money to pay back their 100K loans.  There is no love loss between me and the US university system. 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

In an earlier message, TeamViewer said,

"The free version can only be used in a private environment - for example if you help friends or relatives in your free time and do not receive any money for it.
Commercial use is every usage in a business environment. This means, if you use it at work or support customers and colleagues, it will be commercial usage. Therefore you are not allowed to use the free version of TeamViewer in any office environments. As soon as one of the PCs participating in a session is connected to a commercial network (office/school/etc.) it is considered commercial use."

So it is not a mistake when they wave the commercial flag at someone in a school or a non-profit or any business environment. It is the result of a conscious decision they made as to what they consider commercial. I may not like it, but it's their decision. People who complain because their own definitions of commercial aren't the same as TeamViewer's are just out of luck.

My beef is the arbitrary way multiple IDs in the same environment are considered differently. I have 7 IDs that I use in my house and one of them gets the flag, the other 6 do not. The inconsistency and lack of predictability is the problem.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@ilikethat44 

I have been using TV since it first came out.  I can't remember the exact date but it was the same month when **Third Party Product** started charging for their service.  Ten years or maybe more. 

This is the very first time I have ever got flagged for commercial use, and I know exactly why it happened.  It happened because I used the new Andriod Quik-Support app to help my 78-year-old father who is traveling and needed to use Uber to get a ride on his smartphone. He was standing on the side of the road while I walked him through the installation of the Quick-Support, setup his uber account and showed him how to use it.  It was really amazing to be able to help him 2000 miles away like. 

A few days later he was having trouble with text messaging and he called me to help him.  As soon as I logged onto his phone, I got the warning that I was suspected of commercial use.  My guess is that, after ten years of connecting to the same computers, that when TV saw me suddenly start connecting to a new IP address 2000 miles away, they assumed that I was doing some kind of remote support for a client.  That is just my guess.  When I filled out the form to have my account reviewed, I explained everything to them about why there a sudden change in the pattern of my usage of TV and got reinstated. 

It is my experience that tech companies do not like to argue with customers.  If the answer is YES, they will tell you.  If the answer is NO, then they will just say nothing at all.  If you have filled out the form and waited a reasonable amount of time (A week or more), I would say that they probably have looked at your account and did not believe your explanation, or did not have enough explanation or information for them to positively rule out commercial use.

Believe me, I know it can be a real pain in the **bleep**. I was pretty ticked off when I could not help my father.  My father has no patience.  He wants what he wants RIGHT NOW!  If I don't help him, he will try to do things himself and that usually means him breaking stuff that I have to fix.  When I could not help him the other day, he went looking for help from strangers.  He found so-called "Tech Expert," told him that the memory on his Galaxy S6 Active smartphone was full and that he needed to install a Micro-SD card to expand his meory.  So the tech expert started prying around on the phone trying to open it up to get to the SD card slot. 

I was very fortunate that my father called me before they destroyed the phone completely.  Every person in the Tech industry knows that Samsung did not put an expandable memory slot on the S6 line of phones and that they are sealed and do not have a removable battery.  For some reason, this "Tech Expert" did not know this, or even how to do a google search to look up this information.  Go figure. LOL!

Just letting you know that I feel your pain. 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@Steve-in-FL 

I agree, it's their call as to what and how they classify things as commercial. And again you are correct it's my interpretation that a "School or University' is not really a commercial environment like say Microsoft or Chevron would be.

However the same argument could be made for your situation, why would you need 6 or 7 machine in your house to have Teamviewer installed on them? Are any of them Server operating systems like 2008 or 2012? Those would represent commercial usage. I think a far better argument could be made that someone with that many machine on a Local network that require Teamviewer represents a commercial enterrise then a School where the majority of the users would be students. Why are you not using Remote Desktop? If it's Linux SSH and pipe X over that?

A simple IP blocking mechanism, altogh effective in some ways, needs to be implemented with a bit more selectiveness then two simple categories....

 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

Here's a fictional family's house, loosely based on mine.

1) My PC
2) My laptop
3) PC connected to TV in lounge
4) Dad's PC
5) Dad's laptop
6) Mum's laptop
7) Mum's android phone

Teamviewer is installed on all of the above, so I can access my PC when I'm away, I can schedule and delete TV recordings without having to be in the lounge or even at home, and I can provide assistance to my not-so-tech-literate family. That's how you can have 7 TV instances in a given location.

As for Universities, outside of the USA, there are a huge amount that aren't "for-profit". As has already been pointed out, TV's policy would appear to prevent commercial use from a University. It would also prevent a student at that University from supporting their friends or family. It's the using a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@ScratchMang 

It's nice that you agree with some of my statements. Thank you.

But when you say, "why would you need 6 or 7 machine in your house to have Teamviewer installed on them," that's really not your question to ask. All of those uses are legitimate. I have a computer that records television and videos and sends the recorded programs to different televisions, I have a computer that has all my house data on it that other computers link to for access, I have three laptops and two desktops. All of them run Windows 10 Home. When my wife is sleeping and I don't feel like walking into the bedroom to get her laptop, I use TeamViewer to access it. When I am watching the television and need to look at the media recording machine at the same time, I use TeamViewer to get into it. Could I use another product? Maybe. But TeamViewer is an excellent product that I have been using for years. I see no reason to change.

You said, "I think a far better argument could be made that someone with that many machine on a Local network that require Teamviewer represents a commercial enterrise..." I suppose it's your right to think that, but your concept of "that many machines" does not match my concept. And your idea of "too many machines" certainly doesn't imply, let alone define, a commercial use.

Last, you ask, "Why are you not using Remote Desktop?" Because TeamViewer is a great product, that offers far more capability than many others. None of the other free programs that I have tested gives you a contact list of machines that you connect to. They all require you to keep a separate list of target connection names. I don't think Remote Desktop offers a contact list, but I might be wrong.

But the point is, it is TeamViewer's definition that counts. And I accept their definitions. As I said in an earlier note, it's the inconsistent and unpredictable way their warnings and penalties are implemented with which I take issue.

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

I would not have thought I would have tripped some security measure

I think it's important to remember that TV's security mechanism is not some sensitive mouse trap that a slight breese can set off, but rather a software program that appears to be bug ridden. It's primary use is to generate revenue.

You can try reaching out to TV ahead of your trip and see what they say. You may end up having use of the telescope during part of your vacation before you have to file an appeal.

It's also possible that a note was placed on your account  after your first appeal so you wont have similiar problems again.

Regards.

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

lol finally got an email today saying they reset my account back to free user and they were sorry for the accident and blah blah. i go log in and i sill get the commercial pop up lol. waste of time. they didnt fix it anyways

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Using the new "Quick Support" app got me blocked for "Commercial use". Good grief!

I accessed my home from my mom's house. Normally it is the other way around. I wonder if it is atypical activity that screws with their system.

 

Regards.

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

Teamviewer is free in the same sense that free breakfast pancakes are free, because someone wants something, that is to say, because something is being sold, whether it is a religious or political agenda or a product. In the case of TV, TV, Inc. is trading access to a “free” license of their product for advertising and the hopes that we will tell our bosses and co-workers about this miraculous program.

Yes John, they are a for profit company, and they let us use the software but the software is not free, not close to it.

Regards.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@Steve-in-FL 

You said "It's nice that you agree with some of my statements. Thank you."

Of course I would, they are accurate and valid, so not respecting those statements would be pointless. Agreeing with different points of view is of benifit to us all :)

I've got to stepo away fromt he keyboard here until tomorrow, this whole "Community" forum (is it a fourm? ormore of a BLOG? or some bad clone of a facebook feed?) is drivingme nuts as things do not seem to stay in a single thread... I've had a long day and need to get some sleep :) Please accpet my apologies but I'll come back tomorrow to continue the discussion as I have found it to be quite insightful and productive.

Hopefully it will allow more than one post in a 10 minute period.....

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: declaration of private use

The Declaration is a pointless exercise IMHO. TV checks the source and destination IP Address, and if either one is from what they determine to be a "Commercial" IP then you get blocked, end of story. I've doen the same thing, actually got a reply indicating that my account was cleared for personal use and it kept happening. So I called and the reply was that because the machine I was using (At the University) was on a Commercial IP Address I was blocked. However if I were to use it form my Home to connect to my folks home PC I woudl not get the blocking warning.

So check the IP Address of the source and destination, IP2Location will give you a "Usage Type" which in my case is "(EDU) University/College/School" which TV considers to be Commercial and get's blocked...

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Using the new "Quick Support" app got me blocked for "Commercial use". Good grief!

@edawen 

I don't think that accessing in reverse will cause this, because I have been doing that for over ten years from my parent's house when I visit them.  

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

@edawen 

TV is professional-level software that they allow us to use for free.  They are not giving a free version, they are giving the pro version.  Very few pro companies I know of do this.  And if they do, the software bugs you incessantly with ads.   I have pro software that I pay for that bugs me with ads all day long.

My statements were about Customer Support. To expect paid level support from a free service is not rational.  I am not saying anyone here is doing that, but there is an old saying that I think a lot of people on here would do well to learn.

"You can catch more flies with honey than with poison."

 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

@Johnhoward28 

I don't think anyone here is expecting a "Paid Level of SUpport" in fact I don't think what we want is any sort of "Support" at all, at least not support with the software itself.

TV has implemented a new medhodology of chekcing what is or is not "Commercial" and people, moreover the free users, are being negativily impacted by the heavy handed way in which this was implemented. Trying to get an issue resolved, and issue that TV themselves have caused has proved to be not only frustrating, but in the long run futile as even after signing declerations and jumping thru hoops, if your IP is on thier list of "Commercial" IP's you are still going to get blocked.

Again I don't begrudge them in trying to clamp down on people who are using TV in a commercial capacity I just wish they would take a closer look at how it's being implemented and maybe listen to the feedback here on this message board...

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

Exactly,

And really part of my personal displeasure with the methodology they are employing to determine who is "Commercial" and who is not. 

Calssifying a University or educational establishment as a "Commercial" environment is, IMHO, shooting themselves in the foot. The University I work at has close to 40,000 Students, many of whom I suspect would use TV to continue to support thier family now that they are no longer livng at home. Eventually these Studentsa will graduate and enter the work force. And possibly bring their experience and apprciation of what TV can offer to their new jobs, at which point you have hundreds, if not thousands of people telling their employers that TV is the cest soloution for Over the Shoulder support.

There are 96 Universities in Canada, and some 1,400 (Conservative count) in the United Stated. (So call it 1500 for easy Math) If only 10 Graduates from each of these enter the work force and start touting the benifits of TV and how it's helped them so much int he past, that equates to 15,000 people, every year, entering the workforce extolling TV and it's benifits.

Seems like a bad idea to cut them off from being able to use TV and forcing them to find some alternative....

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

@ScratchMang 

"Seems like a bad idea to cut them off from being able to use TV and forcing them to find some alternative...."

I agree.  I know I have told a lot of people, including professional businesses, about TV, because of my positive experience with it.  

 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks


@Johnhoward28 wrote:

@ScratchMang 

"Seems like a bad idea to cut them off from being able to use TV and forcing them to find some alternative...."

I agree.  I know I have told a lot of people, including professional businesses, about TV, because of my positive experience with it.  

 


As have I. And I can work aroudn the "Commercial" blocking as I have the infrastructure in place both at Home and at work to now really be all that troubled by it truth be told. But yeah, it's a shame the took such a heavy handed approach to this. As I mentioned when I was talking to the TV 'Sales" guy about my issue (They actually called me) and heard that they were limiting it by the Source and Destination IP I was dumb struck. I work with firewall and IP restricitions almost daily, and I was dumb struck with the methodology the decided upon.

 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

Hello Steve. You make a good point, but I think the inability of the algorithm to detect multiple IDs performing similar activity from the same IP shows out simplistic and ineffective it is. In my case I used TV to call from my mom's PC to my home PC, something that probably had not been done been done before (usually it is the other way around.)

I wish they would spend more time (money) optimizing their algorithm so there would be fewer false detections and potentially more positives that are currently missed.

Regards.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?


@ScratchMang wrote:

I don't think anyone here is expecting a "Paid Level of SUpport" in fact I don't think what we want is any sort of "Support" at all, at least not support with the software itself.

TV has implemented a new medhodology of chekcing what is or is not "Commercial" and people, moreover the free users, are being negativily impacted by the heavy handed way in which this was implemented. Trying to get an issue resolved, and issue that TV themselves have caused has proved to be not only frustrating, but in the long run futile as even after signing declerations and jumping thru hoops, if your IP is on thier list of "Commercial" IP's you are still going to get blocked.

Again I don't begrudge them in trying to clamp down on people who are using TV in a commercial capacity I just wish they would take a closer look at how it's being implemented and maybe listen to the feedback here on this message board...


YES! This is the issue ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!

I only fault Teamviewer for their false accusations and for failing to live up to the (false) statements on their website about free for personal use and the scenarios that they claim are free personal use but which they are now blocking.

Kse Dyna --
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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?


@Technut wrote:


I only fault Teamviewer for their false accusations and for failing to live up to the (false) statements on their website about free for personal use and the scenarios that they claim are free personal use but which they are now blocking.


But they are not false. It is free for personal use. they have just defined "Personal Use" as originating and terminating at an IP Address that is not listed as "Commercial". SO their statements are true, it's how they decide what is a "Commercial" IP Address and what is a "Home"  IP Address that's flawed.

I've been thinking on this a bit, and it's quite possible that they are using a PBL (Policy BLock List) of some sort. SpamHaus uses a similar list to prevent SPAM E-Mail. In short how it works, is your ISP has an assigned block of IP Addresses, those IP Addresses have Terms and COnditions associated with them, so basically if you are a Home User, with an IP That is desiganted for "Home" use, the terms and conditions from you ISP would most likely include a line that states you are not allowed to run a Mail Server. 

So it might be something like that they are checking, some sort of PBL that defines Home vs Business IP addresses? It's a possibility, similar to the IP2Location Database, there's a lot fo them out there they just need to re-think how they are implementing it, and more over how they are granting exemptions. It's probably cost them a lot more in dealing with the complaints, and those "Declerations" then they have earned in new registrations by far...

 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

Whoa there big fella...

I have 3 PC's on my desk (1 for gaming, 1 for Plex), and a laptop (mostly because it's a gadget and I'm a guy.) I have a server, and 2 NASs (NASes ?). I have 2 networked printers (a third network wide carriage photo printer in the box) and another 8 headless PCs in a render farm on their own private network. The render farm doesn't have TV on it yet. Oh, and one of those all in one computers running Linux (that's the one I am posting from now) and a laptop just for Arduino / Raspberry Pi electronics work.) All that other stuff, that it for graphics work, I love Vue and Maya. It is just slow for me to learn them. (I also have several computers that do not have TV installed yet, 3 Compaq 286s, IBM AT, IBM PC/XT, Challenger C1P.)

I am a disabled veteran so I have plenty of time on my hands, nothing commercial, it's either do something or die. There is nothing here that should trip TV's Commercial Use trigger, and it was using TV at mom's house that caused the problem. She has one machine.

So, you were saying about 6 or 7 machines .....

 

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Posted by
Henagon

Commercial use suspected using Chrome Browser Extension

Teamviewer thinks I'm using it commercially but just when i'm using the chrome browser extension on my computer. I wanted to fill out the form here https://www.teamviewer.com/en/support/commercial-use-suspected/ to regain access, but there is no "teamviewer ID" when using the Chrome Browser extension to access my remote computer. I can't install the full teamviewer program on my computer which is why i'm using the browser extension to access a computer at home. Definately falls under personal use. 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: TeamViewer / Commercial Issues IP Blocks

If the Server has 


@edawen wrote:

Whoa there big fella...

I have 3 PC's on my desk (1 for gaming, 1 for Plex), and a laptop (mostly because it's a gadget and I'm a guy.) I have a server, and 2 NASs (NASes ?)


And there it is. If TV is installed on that Server that would have done it. (Well if it's a winbdows based Server anyway) As the terms of Service from TV clearly states that using TV ona Server OS would be considered Commercial Usage.

I'm not advocated for their policy, so don't take we wrong there. I'm just trying to figure out how it is they determine what's Commercial and what's not commercial. I've written serveral other posts musing on the possibilities ranging from IP Blocks (so like /16/s /13's etc) and who they are assigned to, to things like the IP2Location Database that clearly has things like " Usage Type" (EDU, MIL, ORG, COM etc...) To PBL's (Policy Block Lists) based upon your individual ISP's terms of service. Regardless of HOW they are implementing it, it is being implemented with a very heavy hand, not being managed with any sort of reliability, and is punishing people who are unfortunate enough to be listed as being on commercial IP's when they are clearly not, which for the 37,000 Students at the University I work at is exactly the case. It is far from reasonable in anyone mind to think that Students at any educational establishment would be "Commercial"....

Oh, and two other side notes... 
1 - Which Flavour of Linux? (Curosity really, Ubuntu? Suse? Deb?)
2 - Thank you for your Service. As a Military Brat, and having served. 

 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

I would like to stop following/getting email notifications for this particular Post.  I see a Global stop in settings but that would cover all..I just want this one.  Can it be done?  How? 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

i totally agree, i love to be updated but not every single reply is needed lol. 

on a side note,. apparently the ID from your phones teamviewer app has to be entered in the form as well. teamviewer told me that might be whats triggering it and not my computers teamviewer, so had to put another form submission for the app. so sad

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Posted by
Photon

"Ghosted" FREE USERS aka VOLUNTEER SALES PEOPLE

Community posts will not fix the issue.  I am no longer promoting this product.

Their commercial use blocking practices make the product unusable so I do not use it or recommend it to anyone anymore. In fact, I try to dissuade people from using it. 

If you are going to pay for a product, I prefer to promote companies and products that don't "ghost" the people that got them where they are.  Free user word of mouth is how they have become the best.  Now we are nothing but a money grab. 

If you are upset that you can't use the free version like you used to, you should do the same.  If you've been using it commercially and can no longer do so, thanks for messing it up for everyone else.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?


@rbmoving wrote:

I would like to stop following/getting email notifications for this particular Post.  I see a Global stop in settings but that would cover all..I just want this one.  Can it be done?  How? 


Honestly I have no idea. To be honest I have run a set of FOrums for over 10 Years now, probably closer to 20 using all sort of different types of software, and this community board/blog that TV has is by far the worst I have ever has the displeasure of using....

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

OK, maybe I have an answer, but I have never actually fully executed the process.

  1. Click on your icon/username at the top of the page
  2. Seelect "My Subscriptions"
  3. The resulting page should show a list of subscriptions. In the check box on the left, check the one you want to delete.
  4. In the middle of the page, hover over "Email Subscription Options"
  5. Click on "Delete Selected Subscriptions"

Let us know if that works.

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

Seems it did because that Post disappeared from my Subscription list; thank you.  Those that continue with this issue; I wish you good Luck.  So far its changed back to personal for me; used it today 

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Posted by
Digon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

**bleep**. Not your day, I'd save that money if you were going to get a lottery ticket. 8).

When you filled out the appeal form and they ask for the ID#, just which ID are they talking about? When I was thinking of completing the form for myself, I was wondering if I put the ID if the computer I was on, my mom's machine, or the machine I was tryng to access, which was my machine

Perhaps you should resubmit the form with the other ID, an explaination of what happened, and what happened when you appealed and explained what happened that time.

Good luck, may the farce be with you.

Regards.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: Avoiding getting kicked off as a commercial user?

@edawen 

Yeah, not my day indeed. Seems they don't care what you are using TV for, it's all down to the IP and what they have classified the IP as (Commercial or Home) As I have sent in all four of the ID's as well as an explination of what each one was, and they could also check my account as they are all there too.

The reply I recieved (At least the relevant bits) was as follows..

Furthermore, please keep in mind that a TeamViewer connection always
involves two devices (TeamViewer IDs) and the pop-up might be displayed
because of the remote side.

So regardless of having my ID freed up, and proving to them that it's non-commercial, and explaing why and what I was using TV For, due to one of the machines being at the University, and that machine's IP Address is classified as "Commercial" I have no recourse. Which is what brought me here originally hoping to find an actuall member of TV Staff who I may be able to explain the situation to, or open a trouble ticket explaining what was happening. But it seems that these message boards are not monitored by TV themselves. Pity really, there's a good group of people here....


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Posted by
Henagon

Re: Commercial use suspected using Chrome Browser Extension

Any solution here? I don't even see how to submit a ticket to resolve this

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Posted by
Henagon

detected commercial use

I use my TV between my phone, my Grandmother's PC and all of my computers at home - a mix of windows and linux computers.

When I was logged in to two PC's I got a message saying that "business use was detected" and that I "would be logged out in 5 minutes"

As previously mentioned, I use this for personal use only... How and why does TV think my usage is "business"?

I literally use it to connect to my computers at home while on the move with my cellphone and to help my grandmother fix her computer (still personal use)

You can not detect personal or business use by code. So I would like to know what factors are used to "detect" this. Because clearly it does not work.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

@mys5droid 

You are correct, the methodology they use to determin Commercial vs Home use is based upon the Source and Destination IP address and nothing else. So if you are connecting from your house to someone elses house then those IP's are (Should) be in their Database or whatever database they are using as home IP addresses. Goto the Library, that's commercial and your blocked, goto an internet Cafe, commercial and your blocked, Goto a school or university, commecrial and your blocked.

As per the E-Mail I recieved from TV...

Furthermore, please keep in mind that a TeamViewer connection always
  involves two devices (TeamViewer IDs) and the pop-up might be displayed
  because of the remote side.

So they check both the Source and Destination IP, and if either one is for whatever reason on their list of Commercial IP's, they block it. You can fill out the form, write a letter, donate blood and sacrafice you first born child, and it will not make a lick of difference. If your on what they list as a commercial IP Address your screwed and there is not recourse to resolve the issue other than to try a different product I'm afraid to say.

 

 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

"You are correct, the methodology they use to determin Commercial vs Home use is based upon the Source and Destination IP address and nothing else."

That cannot be correct, as multiple people have reported that they have several IDs in one location and that only some of them are flagged. This is my situation as well. I have 7 IDs within my home and one of them is flagged when connecting with any of the others. The others all work to any others in the group.

There have to be additional characteristics that TeamViewer takes into account. (Incorrectly, it appears.)

I sent in the standard form for each of the IDs I use. It worked for all but that one ID, referenced above. They just sent me a new form to sign asking me to swear that I am non-commercial. I just sent it in this morning. Let's see if they unflag that ID. I'll keep everyone posted.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

With no word from TV to explain how this happens, and with no responses to unflag the users we will never know.

Life is to short. Find another solution. TV isn't going to do anything to help us. I made adjustments and moved on. I also will ensure I have reviewed TV anywhere possible to ensure out potential users are aware of this arbitrary process. 

 

 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

"With no word from TV to explain how this happens, and with no responses to unflag the users we will never know."

Well, I wouldn't say "no responses." Some people have had IDs unblocked, so that's a response. I believe some people have said they received followup emails. So, TeamViewer is not doing nothing. But, that doesn't excuse the fact that the responses are not sufficient. I would submit to you, that if they unblocked all of the IDs that people submitted on the forms, no one would be complaining.

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

Take it how you want. Everybody has their own interpretation of events.


What I submit is, most people on this thread have submitted requests to have their issue reviewed and possibly unlocked/corrected. I would also submit most people have received no response. 

I submitted my request a couple of times and have yet to have one response. If TV reviewed my ID's and determined that it was commercial use (which it surely isn't), don't you believe a response is warranted either way? 

In my opinion, there response is not consistent and is arbitrary. To me, this shows a lack of professionalism. 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

@kfsutops 

I agree with you, but if you would have read my previous post about their lack of response, it might shed some light on the potential reason you have gotten no response.

In my vast experience as a computer technician, web developer and internet entrepreneur since the 1990s, I have dealt with countless internet companies and I have seen a consistent trend in dealing with them.  This trend is that they seek to avoid conflict at all cost, and this endeavor to avoid conflict can certainly be perceived as a lack of professionalism, and I personally agree with you that it is most definitely a lack of professionalism. 

However, the unfortunate reality of the situation is that dealing with conflict, cost money, time and resources. Thus, almost no internet company allocates serious resources to conflict resolution departments for their FREE services.  For paying customers, they will listen to your complaints all day long, but when you are a Free user, every minute they are talking to you, is costing them money, and the company cannot justify to its investors the expense of providing paid level support to users of free services.  As undesirable as this is, it is simply a fact and reality of internet life.

In my experience, the normal process by which most companies handle conflict resolution with users of FREE services is this.  If the answer to your problem is, YES, they will send you a confirmation of this.  If the answer to your request is, NO, they prefer to not respond at all.  Why is this?  Because when they say,  YES, that is the end of the matter; but when they say NO, that is just extending the matter which will require further involvement of their CS department, which cost them money.

So what does this mean?  It means that if you have submitted a request to have your account returned to Free status and they did not respond, it probably means that after looking at your explanation, they did not believe you or they were not convinced.  So, they simply chose not to respond in order to prevent further conflict. 

Is this why they have responded not to you, I have no idea?  All I am saying is that I submitted my request and they responded in less than 72 hours. So, that is evidence that there are people looking at the request.  If people are looking at the request, there is no logical reason why they would have looked at my first request, and not looked at your multiple requests. Logical deduction would indicate that your requests have been looked at.  If they have, then why have they not responded?  Well, it goes back to what the answer would be.  A YES answer would have certainly been sent out.  So, that only leaves the possibility that the answer was NO and they don't want to get into an argument about it. 

This is all my speculation about what MIGHT be going on for a lot of the people on here that have submitted requests and have not received answers.  I really have zero internal knowledge of how TV's CS department works. 

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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

Is the Blocked ID running a version of windows Server? (2008? 2010? 2012?) if so, then it's blocked as Servers are deemed to be "Commercial".

As to other OS's who knows as a Linux Desktop and Server are basically the same OS.


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Posted by
Trigon

Re: detected commercial use

@Johnhoward28 

I agree with you in principal that for a company to invest time into supporting "Free" users is a money pit that on the surface would be see by "Bean Counters" as a waste of resources. Without a doubt I can see your point.

However even witht hat said, I would suspect that there are a lat, and I do mean a lot of "Free" users who are, for want of a better term, "Not working". So kids, kids in School, who are supporting their friends, family, Aunts, Uncles using TV as the goto remote software.

Eventually those "Kids" will enter the workforce and bring with them a history of using TV as their "Goto" support device. The Heavy Handed way in which TV has fdecided to implement their blocking of what they deem to be "Commercial" use is deeply flawed. I've made this point a number of times here, but I'll say it again. To consider education establishments as "Commercial" is a huge mistake. Student's (Kids) I would suspect are a large portion of their "Free" users, and by cutting them off, forcing them to find alternatives to TV they are shooting themselves in the foot if you ask me. 

In short by cutting off educational establishments, from using their free version they are cutting off their next generation of users. 

Worse yet, but completely ignoring their "Free" user base, by not participating in thses message boards, buy not having at least one person listening and interacting with the community, even if we are not paying users is a huge mistake.

Personally I'm not willing to pay the $500/year for a Commercial license. The math does not work out, it would cost me close to $60 per connection to my Folks out east. It would actually be cheaper for me to fly out and visit them for a week every year then to pay the Commercial licensing fee.

Maybe a "Home" version would be the way to go. Let me connect remotely to my folks out east, disable the Voice, Video, File Transfer capabilities for the "Home" version and charge me $50/year. I'd be more than happy to pay that and not have to deal with this poorly implemented blocking system thay have imposed upon us.

As it stands I've gone around and removed TV form all the systems I had it installed on and have put a new (if not slightly more complex) method of assisting family ont he East coast when they require it.

Word of mouth is a powerful thing, my counterparts are all looking at alternatives and are activly discouraging people from using TV in favour of other options....

It's a pity, as they have a great product, but whoever it was that put this blocking system in place really needs to be taken to task and possibly shown the door if you ask me.

 

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Posted by
Digon

Looks like Teamviewer no longer cares!

Team viewer no longer cares about their free users. I'M SWITCHING TO GOOGLE AND I SUGGEST EVERYONE ELSE DOES THE SAME! Check out [the link has been removed as per the community guidelines.]and if you can't click the link or don't want too just do a search on google for **Third Party Product**. It's free to use and they aren't going to try and pull this **bleep** on you as well.... At least I freaking hope so!

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Posted by
Digon

Re: "Your license limits the maximum session duration" for FREE personal use

I'm having the same problem.  Have used TV for many years... usually only once or twice a month... to help friends.  About a month ago I got the message that I was using it for business purposes, wrote to them and still have not heard back.  I think you're right... this is their way of telling us they no longer want us "free users".  Time to look for another program. 

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Posted by
Henagon

How to unblock id suspected for commercial use

What ID needs to specified on the request form to unblock suspected commercial use?

The local ID?  each remote ID that is linked to my account ?